Dojo Dynasty stolen?

WillieHewes · 07-07-2006, 07:23 AM

Hey all,

Because everyone likes a good scandal:

Did you see the thread over at the tokyopop boards from someone claiming Dojo Dynasty was a rip-off of their comic? Not looked at it in detail, and I'm very bad at judging this anyway, but looking at the panel he singles out I can kind of see it. :/

Check it here: http://messageboard.tokyopop.com/for...ead.php?t=3924

What do you think?

And, if this is a rip (not saying it is) I have another question: why do people DO that?

I mean, if you're gonna steal, steal from all over the place. That way you can call it research...

Dock · 07-07-2006, 08:51 AM

There certainly does seem to be some similarities in the style of the two comics. It's a real shame that some panels were lifted directly like this though, otherwise the suggestion is much more teneous.

Mace · 07-07-2006, 09:06 AM

woah O.O they are very similar. you dont think it could be a co-inserdence... do you? but the panels the same maybe he just liked the pose. you know? its kinda confussing about whoes in the right and whoes in the wrong. or even if there is a right or wrong

Kriffix · 07-07-2006, 09:13 AM

too bad, this was my favourite in the UK RSOM 1
but i spose theres a chance its either a coincidence, or done unconciously (well not totally,obviously) due to being a fan of the web-comic
patrick is on the boards right?
got anything to say in your defence?

i reli hope this is just some extreme coincidence
note: i cannot see the link from the school (tokyopop is filtered somehow

) but i do see dock's pic, and it worries me.

Buuu · 07-07-2006, 09:35 AM

Even without the book here I can see the similarities with that comic.

TBH, it's kinda disappointing. The first RSoM where we really had to prove what this country's artists were made of, and something like this happens.

Remember kids, don't plagiarise! Ever! Even a little bit.

Scorpio · 07-07-2006, 09:59 AM

Eeek, I just matched up stuff from my book and Daniel Cross's comic. Some seem too similar to be a coincidence (considering the panel cropping, exact lineart and toning). Though I don't think it was intentional malicious plagiarism...more idolised imitation. Interesting timing for the scandal to appear, at least it gives all current RSOM entrants a huge kick up the behind to restrain from getting overzealous with references

!

Subi · 07-07-2006, 10:17 AM

That's it, I am never ever ever reading another comic ever again. No-one's going to accuse me of copying!

wikivic · 07-07-2006, 11:01 AM

such a shame - this was one of my favs from the book too...

hopefully it all comes down to idealised inspiration rather than plagarism, i mean, its not a rip of the other guy's comic story or characters (it seems to me), and stuff like the linework styles are very different...

to me i don't think it would cross the line into plagarism - you've gotta be influenced by something!

Buuu · 07-07-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subi

That's it, I am never ever ever reading another comic ever again. No-one's going to accuse me of copying!

Bah, if you read enough comics, you forget which panel belongs to what, and can't possibly copy a whole comic accidently.

Dock · 07-07-2006, 11:30 AM

Surely if you prop-open a comic (or have it on screen) and decide to directly copy a panel like this, you're plagiarising that comic, even if it is just a small amount. Right?

That panel wasn't copied by accident. It's a big shame because it undermines the hard-work Patrick put into the rest of the comic.

Obviously a lot of influence was taken from the comic as well, which is fair enough.... we see that all the time in various art forms, but this is more blatent and completely unnecessary.

Kriffix · 07-07-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dock

Surely if you prop-open a comic (or have it on screen) and decide to directly copy a panel like this, you're plagiarising that comic, even if it is just a small amount. Right?

Its sad to say, but its true. There is not much of an excuse for this, if it was just the style was similar then that would be another matter, but sadly its not as simple as that. The more I think about it the more its true, that panel must have been onscreen being copied as he drew. There is way to much similarity.

But This still wont feel right until Patrick (mr.metallium)gives some words of defence first

Subi · 07-07-2006, 11:46 AM

It is sort of tricky this one. Part of me is saying "It's just one frame, what's the difference between using that and another reference point like a photo or a mirror". But another part is saying "If it's just one frame, and a pretty simple frame at that, why did the artist copy it instead of doing his own version?" Even if it was the same pose, it wouldn't be a direct copy.

Agh, I don't know...

Buuu · 07-07-2006, 11:46 AM

Erm, I hate to add to the drama, but TBH quite a lot of it appears copied or at very least heavily influenced. Not just the odd panel, the character Garin in DD is too similar to Krynn in Lore (same shape hair, similar clothes) and four of the gags are a bit... uh... the same (both comics have mentions of short-cuts due to lack of pages, a risque/weird photo to undermine a character, a battle which is just a game instead of fighting, and an 'ah screw it, happy ending that makes no sense' finale.

) That, as well as all the similar panels lead to the conclusion that it's a little more than unintentional influence.

The similarities are too overwhelming.

Sorry.

Scorpio · 07-07-2006, 11:50 AM

Though wasn't there a loophole where a mirror-reverse image doesn't count as copyright infringement? (We were told to do that as part of our design course...bad bad industry

).

But it's a teeny bit hypocritical of the community to create a hype when a "middleweight" artist gets his work plagiarised (and personally complains). Nobody cares if someone draws similar to CLAMP because they've influenced so many artists (amateur and pro alike). And I'm sure if you dig through their work, there might just be one panel copied from a CLAMP comic.

In this case it was the copied panel was only picked up by the artist himself. Because RSOM was out for so long I doubt any of us would've noticed (I've never heard of Daniel Cross before, but I like his stuff!). It must be a really weird feeling to see your own work in the winning RSOM entry. I'd probably be flattered if that happened to me in any other context, but RSOM is a bit prickly cause you win cash and fame

.

Hehe, this is even "juicier" that the american scandal...since the comic got published! Wonder how Tokyopop are going to react...(they never even issued an official statement about the USA one, just disposed of the guy neatly and quietly).

Kriffix · 07-07-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buuu

Erm, I hate to add to the drama, but TBH quite a lot of it appears copied or at very least heavily influenced. Not just the odd panel, the character Garin in DD is too similar to Krynn in Lore (same shape hair, similar clothes) and four of the gags are a bit... uh... the same (both comics have mentions of short-cuts due to lack of pages, a risque/weird photo to undermine a character, a battle which is just a game instead of fighting, and an 'ah screw it, happy ending that makes no sense' finale.

) That, as well as all the similar panels lead to the conclusion that it's a little more than unintentional influence.

The similarities are too overwhelming.

Sorry.

when i get home il look at the original comic (cant here)
too bad, i really loved this manga.
depressin to here this new tbh.
what a bad thing to happen to the UK on its 1st rsom

Buuu · 07-07-2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpio

But it's a teeny bit hypocritical of the community to create a hype when a "middleweight" artist gets his work plagiarised (and personally complains). Nobody cares if someone draws similar to CLAMP because they've influenced so many artists (amateur and pro alike). And I'm sure if you dig through their work, there might just be one panel copied from a CLAMP comic.

I care! I've seen pro artists rip off CLAMP. It pisses me off.

Though, plagiarism only really becomes an issue when a substantial amount is copied.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kriffix

when i get home il look at the original comic (cant here)
too bad, i really loved this manga.
depressin to here this new tbh.
what a bad thing to happen to the UK on its 1st rsom

Mm, is a shame.

I quite liked the comedy in the artwork in Dojo Dynasty.

Kari_Kusunagi · 07-07-2006, 12:00 PM

Wow thats surprised me to be honest, that was one of my favourites from the RSOM comp. Iv'e just done some matching up well and it does seem too direct to be coincidence.

It seems like he has taken a lot of inspiration from this guy and ended up copying a some of it.

Man that sucks

Its strange the way Tokyopop reacted to it aswell. I kinda feel bad for the other guy.

Would be interesting to see if Patrick Warren says anything...

Emma · 07-07-2006, 01:18 PM

Oh man...not something I wanted to see either. I love dojo dynasty and Patrick's a great guy.

A good point is however made by someone on the TP thread regarding the respective dates of each piece. If Lore really did only make an appearance in Jan 06 as is said there, then Patrick's piece would have been long handed in by then. This could be a 2 sided thing. Patrick does post on these forums so I'm sure he'll post if he feels he needs to.

Either way, controversy over our first UK rsom is not ideal. ;_;

Laura · 07-07-2006, 01:28 PM

That Lore comic looked nice (if a little too talking-head-y).

Nice work though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danime

Hell, the least Mr. Patrick Warren could have done is mentioned me under his favorite manga artists. I mean, he CLEARLY liked my work, yeah?

If Patrick had have done this though, wouldn't it have blown it for him? Maybe...

Ness · 07-07-2006, 01:30 PM

Agreed - best wait for all the facts before "hanging" anyone.

It's good to hear 2 sides to the story, even if the evidence appears to be damning.

07-07-2006, 07:23 AM	#1
WillieHewes I'm a publisher! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bristol Posts: 1,415	Dojo Dynasty stolen? Hey all, Because everyone likes a good scandal: Did you see the thread over at the tokyopop boards from someone claiming Dojo Dynasty was a rip-off of their comic? Not looked at it in detail, and I'm very bad at judging this anyway, but looking at the panel he singles out I can kind of see it. :/ Check it here: http://messageboard.tokyopop.com/for...ead.php?t=3924 What do you think? And, if this is a rip (not saying it is) I have another question: why do people DO that? I mean, if you're gonna steal, steal from all over the place. That way you can call it research... __________________ * Manga DIY: Tutorials

07-07-2006, 09:06 AM	#3
Mace Yeahhhh... Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Waterlooville Posts: 1,800 -->	woah O.O they are very similar. you dont think it could be a co-inserdence... do you? but the panels the same maybe he just liked the pose. you know? its kinda confussing about whoes in the right and whoes in the wrong. or even if there is a right or wrong __________________ My Deviantart

07-07-2006, 09:35 AM	#5
Buuu Improving makes you better! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cambridge Posts: 3,943 Sweatdrop Admin Sweatdrop Member	Even without the book here I can see the similarities with that comic. TBH, it's kinda disappointing. The first RSoM where we really had to prove what this country's artists were made of, and something like this happens. Remember kids, don't plagiarise! Ever! Even a little bit. __________________ 'Even peeled they are squishy with their water' ::Noddingcat.net:: Home to agreeable kittens ::Ohayo Sunday Afternoon:: Delinquent webcomic

07-07-2006, 09:59 AM	#6
Scorpio Improve or die tryin' Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,296 Sweatdrop Admin	Eeek, I just matched up stuff from my book and Daniel Cross's comic. Some seem too similar to be a coincidence (considering the panel cropping, exact lineart and toning). Though I don't think it was intentional malicious plagiarism...more idolised imitation. Interesting timing for the scandal to appear, at least it gives all current RSOM entrants a huge kick up the behind to restrain from getting overzealous with references ! __________________ Joanna Zhou :: website :: livejournal

07-07-2006, 10:17 AM	#7
Subi We like beans and sauce Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Development Hell Posts: 4,128	That's it, I am never ever ever reading another comic ever again. No-one's going to accuse me of copying! __________________ obligatory homepage and livejournal

07-07-2006, 09:13 AM	#4
Kriffix なし Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London Posts: 2,717 -->	too bad, this was my favourite in the UK RSOM 1 but i spose theres a chance its either a coincidence, or done unconciously (well not totally,obviously) due to being a fan of the web-comic patrick is on the boards right? got anything to say in your defence? i reli hope this is just some extreme coincidence note: i cannot see the link from the school (tokyopop is filtered somehow ) but i do see dock's pic, and it worries me.

07-07-2006, 11:01 AM	#8
wikivic away with the bumblemoos Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: cambridge, uk Posts: 1,600 -->	such a shame - this was one of my favs from the book too... hopefully it all comes down to idealised inspiration rather than plagarism, i mean, its not a rip of the other guy's comic story or characters (it seems to me), and stuff like the linework styles are very different... to me i don't think it would cross the line into plagarism - you've gotta be influenced by something! __________________

07-07-2006, 11:30 AM	#10
Dock Taking care of Doodles Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 5,807 --> Sweatdrop Admin	Surely if you prop-open a comic (or have it on screen) and decide to directly copy a panel like this, you're plagiarising that comic, even if it is just a small amount. Right? That panel wasn't copied by accident. It's a big shame because it undermines the hard-work Patrick put into the rest of the comic. Obviously a lot of influence was taken from the comic as well, which is fair enough.... we see that all the time in various art forms, but this is more blatent and completely unnecessary. __________________ Art gallery ala Dock~! : deadpanda.com

07-07-2006, 11:46 AM	#12
Subi We like beans and sauce Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Development Hell Posts: 4,128	It is sort of tricky this one. Part of me is saying "It's just one frame, what's the difference between using that and another reference point like a photo or a mirror". But another part is saying "If it's just one frame, and a pretty simple frame at that, why did the artist copy it instead of doing his own version?" Even if it was the same pose, it wouldn't be a direct copy. Agh, I don't know... __________________ obligatory homepage and livejournal

07-07-2006, 11:50 AM	#14
Scorpio Improve or die tryin' Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,296 Sweatdrop Admin	Though wasn't there a loophole where a mirror-reverse image doesn't count as copyright infringement? (We were told to do that as part of our design course...bad bad industry ). But it's a teeny bit hypocritical of the community to create a hype when a "middleweight" artist gets his work plagiarised (and personally complains). Nobody cares if someone draws similar to CLAMP because they've influenced so many artists (amateur and pro alike). And I'm sure if you dig through their work, there might just be one panel copied from a CLAMP comic. In this case it was the copied panel was only picked up by the artist himself. Because RSOM was out for so long I doubt any of us would've noticed (I've never heard of Daniel Cross before, but I like his stuff!). It must be a really weird feeling to see your own work in the winning RSOM entry. I'd probably be flattered if that happened to me in any other context, but RSOM is a bit prickly cause you win cash and fame . Hehe, this is even "juicier" that the american scandal...since the comic got published! Wonder how Tokyopop are going to react...(they never even issued an official statement about the USA one, just disposed of the guy neatly and quietly). __________________ Joanna Zhou :: website :: livejournal

07-07-2006, 12:00 PM	#17
Kari_Kusunagi I hope it's not butter Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Hastings/Portsmouth Posts: 233	Wow thats surprised me to be honest, that was one of my favourites from the RSOM comp. Iv'e just done some matching up well and it does seem too direct to be coincidence. It seems like he has taken a lot of inspiration from this guy and ended up copying a some of it. Man that sucks Its strange the way Tokyopop reacted to it aswell. I kinda feel bad for the other guy. Would be interesting to see if Patrick Warren says anything... __________________ The Major!

07-07-2006, 01:18 PM	#18
Emma Badgers! Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 9,624 Sweatdrop Admin	Oh man...not something I wanted to see either. I love dojo dynasty and Patrick's a great guy. A good point is however made by someone on the TP thread regarding the respective dates of each piece. If Lore really did only make an appearance in Jan 06 as is said there, then Patrick's piece would have been long handed in by then. This could be a 2 sided thing. Patrick does post on these forums so I'm sure he'll post if he feels he needs to. Either way, controversy over our first UK rsom is not ideal. ;_; __________________ Sweatdrop Studios are go go go....^_^

07-07-2006, 01:30 PM	#20
Ness Draws stuff and the like.. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sarfaaampton Posts: 1,118	Agreed - best wait for all the facts before "hanging" anyone. It's good to hear 2 sides to the story, even if the evidence appears to be damning. __________________ www.vanessa.withbits.com www.withbits.com/shrouded