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Old 05-06-2006, 11:46 AM   #1
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Default Digital Comics; Thoughts?

What do people think of the idea of comics distributed digitally?

Programs such as CDisplay have made reading comics on a PC much easier for a lot of people, although the principle use seems to be scanlations and pirated western comics. Do you think there's much of a market for providing comics in this format (as zip files with all the pages)?

There's an interesting article about the process of selling comics digitally in this format, in an 'itunes' esque manner:
http://nosheep.net/story/save-the-co...ry-go-digital/
I don't necessarily think that it's entirely practical to charge money for the content in this form (although it *is* possible), but I do agree that it's a great format for people to be able to read comics, especially as it allows reading of comics on trains with laptops and even PSP.

I must admit that I don't especially enjoy reading comics on a computer screen, but for a lot of people it's perfectly satisfactory. The idea of downloading a zip file means that you avoid all the problems of webcomics (slow loading of next page, uncomfortable tiny 'next page' button to click on, etc), and allows offline reading.

So what do people think about digital comics?
Would you ever pay for comics in digital form, or would you ever like to preview book-size-comics in this format?
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Old 05-06-2006, 07:02 PM   #2
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I wouldn't pay as much for comics in digital for as I do for printed form - it's similar to downloading music isn't it really? You can go the shop and buy a single for £3 or download it no-frills for a quid from somewhere.

I'd certainly go for this though. I don't have regular internet access so I don't get the chance to sit for hours to read through the lengthy archives of many webcomics and it would be ideal for me if they were available in bulk to download for me to take away and read on my own computer rather than having to go through saving each page one-by-one online. I've even asked on the OnlineComics.net forum if creators would ever consider archiving their comics in .zip format - for the most part they said no as large downloads kill the server (though thirty or so images per file are hardly going to do that much damage if you ask me) and having individual pages online = more hits as people are reading them rather than going to the site, downloading the archives and p*ssing off again. Though if a profit was involved I'm sure the opinion would be different.

If it wasn't webcomics and actual *professional* manga or something... hhmmmm... I'd say I'd prefer to have a hardcopy but it would be cheaper/quicker to just download it on the spot. It would depend on the price. If it was very reasonable I'd buy it digital, if not, I'd get the book.

So yes, I'd pay for it - not much though. A few pence a page maybe. And I'd defo read book-length comics in this format - I've gone through the entire scanslated Naruto archive this way and loved every minute! X) To me it doesn't change anything - comics are comics, I love them whatever way they come to me~
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Old 05-06-2006, 08:00 PM   #3
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I guess both standard paper media and digital works both have advantages and flaws. I have to say I lean more towards the digital side but that's just a personal preference and not backed up by a lot of reason. I read webcomics on a regular basis and I have to agree a zip. file content would encourage more people to read the work as they could do it in their own time, offline, without waiting for each page to load. I'm not even sure how it started but it seems most webcomic artist work off donations and advertising space rather than selling their product. They try and attract readers and sponsor rather than just advertising their work.

I'm have to admit though, I'm more familiar with the sweatdrop titles that I read first for free on-line... it then let me have a glimpse of the artists works and I knew what I would be buying when I picked up the printed version. I'm not sure if this is a better tactic then just releasing a series but books like Megatokyo or Sun Kittens LFTS seem to still do great (I hope) in printed volumes despite being free to view on the web. I guess one reason is it's easy to build up a fan base that way and let people know what is coming. In addition they release content and extras that's only in the printed versions so people who are fans and want to see that content end up buying the volumes. Wither this tactic is more successful than a volume of non web based work is something only sales can tell you.

I think that unfortunately one thing that still plagues (and probably always will) small press comics is the price you pay to print them and thus the min price you have to charge. I've seen SD titles for £2, Makenai ones for £2.75 and vols from £5-£7 which I think are more than fair. However common logic of the anime fans is why would I pay for that when I can pick up the first volume of series like Deathnote for £7? The problem with printing press is pretty much…. well... printing. You'll have to print off work and charge this price in order to cover it.

If however SD were to branch into the digital comic field you could pretty much fit every page of every single sweatdrop comic to date onto one CD, which would cost something in the range of 10p to produce the media. Considering people are willing to pay £2 already for just one comic, you could charge a lot more for this CD and fans of the series would probably still buy it and profit wise you'd be making a lot more than you would off paper medium. If you feel like this media is cheating customers then you could add extras that could only be added via this media (hi-res images, desktop wallpapers, written works and poems... even animations and vocal commentary). Sweatdrop could then even evolve from just a platform for just printed press to other media, letting members show off their other talents. You could include writers, song writers, animators, even games designers all working the under the sweatdrop label and manga theme.

However the problem with this media is obvious though... how do you stop people just copying one CD and sending it to everyone else? With printed media the most they can do is borrow it to a friend but sooner or later you'll want it back. With this you'd be able to give friends a perfect copy with no-loss to yourself.

Producing something like this doesn't mean you'd have to abandon published media, you could even do this along side it, but I think it's something that's worth considering at least.

Last edited by Cin : 05-06-2006 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 05-06-2006, 08:02 PM   #4
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I hate reading coimics on a computer. After I while my right hand starts to go cold from just having it on the mouse. I'm also one who likes to just look at the piles of comics they have and realise how much money they've actually spent. It makes me happy
I suppose online is a lot more enviromentally freindly though.
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Old 05-06-2006, 08:52 PM   #5
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i like the tokyopop previews of a chapter or two online! reading 'my cat loki' and 'fools gold' on there opened my eyes a bit to US manga, as before i wasn't really inclined to buy any US oel stuff...

...however i love paper manga, even just photocopies and could never really imagine reading a comic purely off the screen. i guess its for 3 reasons:

- the feeling of turning the pages, holding it in my hands, just appreciating the artwork on the page or seeing them all stacked on a shelf is great!

- they're portable and i can swap them over and lend them to friends and family easily

- i stare at a screen all day making fiddly lines match up (in autoCAD) at work, and i find if i spend loads of time on the computer in the evenings etc. i get eye strain headaches!

so yep i'm all for previews as they can really open your eyes but i would never read a whole comic in purely digital form i don't think...(hehe! so i guess i should get off the computer now )
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Old 05-06-2006, 08:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin
books like Megatokyo or Sun Kittens LFTS seem to still do great (I hope) in printed volumes despite being free to view on the web
you're right there! i know LFTS is free on the web...but that hasn't stopped me from buying both volumes to read! (and keep and cherish... )

altho its a good point that, costing less to produce, selling CDs that cost 10p at a price of £1 or so each might help to cover the costs of making printed versions (even fund limited special editions and suchlike )
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Old 05-06-2006, 08:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wikivic
i love paper manga, even just photocopies and could never really imagine reading a comic purely off the screen. i guess its for 3 reasons:

- the feeling of turning the pages, holding it in my hands, just appreciating the artwork on the page or seeing them all stacked on a shelf is great!

- they're portable and i can swap them over and lend them to friends and family easily

- i stare at a screen all day making fiddly lines match up (in autoCAD) at work, and i find if i spend loads of time on the computer in the evenings etc. i get eye strain headaches!
AMEN! agreed, its hard to get into online, but if i think i'll reli enjoy a webcomic then i'll print it off then read (e.g duel class)
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Old 05-06-2006, 09:14 PM   #8
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I think it depends on how it's presented. I've authored digi-ket style doujinshi before [transferring high res png or tiff to PDF format] which I actually like, but then I've seen other PDF style comics without proper presentation format and those irritate me.

I've also see the html style of interface using GIF and JPEG images; again, this is only a popular format depending on the audience and the genre. For shoujo and BL it fails unless it's a published scanslation from Japan with an established readership in place. For some reason, women in this hemisphere have the complete collector mentality when it comes to acquiring their manga; they want the books in their hand or on their shelf. Hentai is booming digital style for obvious reason I won't go into on an all ages forum; but the success of online manga for GoManga [one example] shows me that males are less hung up over 'collecting' a book as they are just reading a good story.

-Tina
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Old 05-06-2006, 09:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriffix
if i think i'll reli enjoy a webcomic then i'll print it off then read (e.g duel class)
LOL! i've considered that too! tho defeats the object of 'cheap' digital comics huh? plus my printer's not up to much
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Old 05-06-2006, 09:17 PM   #10
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lol true wikivic, but if its good enuff to print then its worth the cost (which lets face it, isnt bad at all if done only on ure fave's)
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Old 05-06-2006, 09:27 PM   #11
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I prefer to have as many senses as possible going when I read- it adds to the tension of the pages. Just seeing a comic is boring, holding one in your hands is, to be honest, exciting. I don't care if I have to dish out more money to pay for the recycled paper and ink, it comes with the territory. It's also the subject of ownership- I own complete control over my comics. I can turn the pages when I want. I can throw it in the bin if it bores me :P (I don't, BTW). I can lend it to friends, rest my drinks on it, whatever... It's mine. It isn't seen by every man and his dog, just me and whoever I lend it to.

If comics ever stop being printed, I will laugh, then cry, then ride a nuclear missile into the house of whoever is responsible.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:08 PM   #12
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I would never pay for comics in digital form, no. Just like I never have and never will pay to download music from the web...Pay for sheet music or for ad removal on a site etc.

However I would get all that I can for free, without it being necessarily illegal.

This is really because if I pay, I am paying for something that has no material value...If my hardrive crashes then I lose it all don't I?

Thus, I buy everything (online or off) in 'material physical' form, as it were.


Now, I am actually a fan of webcomics and will read them off of my computer screen...However I would never pay for one.


There you have it, I like the idea of digital comic distribution...As long as it's free, which is kinda' going off topic!
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missino
This is really because if I pay, I am paying for something that has no material value...If my hardrive crashes then I lose it all don't I?
i think this point is on topic as part of the discussion, if not feel free to delete (and sorry )

i had this exact prob with music downloads - i got 10 free tracks with my new mp3 player and downloaded em using the software provided (sony 'sonicstage'). then my puter got plagued by nasties and i had to re-format my hard drive. so i tried to find the tracks to save them - they were encrypted somehow in the mp3 player software (i think, not having big tecchy knowledge) - i couldn't find any trace of them in any files/folders and therefore lost 10 tracks. im just glad i wasn't using their service to download loads of music or it would have been very expensive to replace!

point: i like to 'own' things, i buy CDs still not downloads, and will always buy copies of comics i like in printed form (i don't consider £2 too much to pay for the author/artist's time and creativity put into an issue )
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Old 06-06-2006, 05:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missino
This is really because if I pay, I am paying for something that has no material value...If my hardrive crashes then I lose it all don't I?
Not necessarily. With itunes your account (remotely stored) has a log of all songs you 'own', so you can download them as many times as you delete them. It's true of lots of digital content, that you have an account that keeps track of what you have.

Quote:
Now, I am actually a fan of webcomics and will read them off of my computer screen...However I would never pay for one.

There you have it, I like the idea of digital comic distribution...As long as it's free, which is kinda' going off topic!
It's not off-topic at all . Whether or not people enjoy digital comics at all is an important thing. For example: I don't really enjoy reading long digital comics, but in small doses I find they are great, but I find them useful for sampling a comic. It works well for Sweatdrop, and it works for tokyopop, with the large samples of their books available online.

I refused to buy digital things online or pay for website subscriptions until a couple of years ago, when I had much more disposible income and spent more time online. Lots of people won't pay for digital content, especially when it doesn't have the usefulness of mp3s ('adult' comics and images not withstanding)

I think there are a decent number of people, like with megatokyo, would pay for printed versions of things they can read on the web. I wonder whether that would be as applicable with zip files comic downloads as it would be with webcomics (which are more arkward to read). Would the added convenience of reading with Cdisplay take away from sales compared to the webcomic version, or get more sales as people can read it 'properly'.
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Old 06-06-2006, 05:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dock
Not necessarily. With itunes your account (remotely stored) has a log of all songs you 'own', so you can download them as many times as you delete them. It's true of lots of digital content, that you have an account that keeps track of what you have.
Hmmm...That's interesting, and news to me. Then again, as I've just said, I don't subscribe to services of that kind!

And free services wouldn't necessarily have that, because if it's free you can download it whenever you want anyway! (Taking into considoration the waiting list if it's a popular file and what have you, of course)


Quote:
Originally Posted by wikivic
i had this exact prob with music downloads - i got 10 free tracks with my new mp3 player and downloaded em using the software provided (sony 'sonicstage'). then my puter got plagued by nasties and i had to re-format my hard drive. so i tried to find the tracks to save them - they were encrypted somehow in the mp3 player software (i think, not having big tecchy knowledge) - i couldn't find any trace of them in any files/folders and therefore lost 10 tracks. im just glad i wasn't using their service to download loads of music or it would have been very expensive to replace!

Well there you have my original point. But saying that, did they not, as Dock said, keep a record of those tracks on your account as proof that you downloaded them before, and so you should be entitled to doing so again due to technical problems?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wikivic
point: i like to 'own' things
Yes that is so like me! I can't stand having copied CDs (for example), and I'll go really nerdy and buy the originals!

I like to know I have the product, and be able to display it proudly on my shelves!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dock
For example: I don't really enjoy reading long digital comics, but in small doses I find they are great, but I find them useful for sampling a comic. It works well for Sweatdrop, and it works for tokyopop, with the large samples of their books available online.

Yes, I believe that is my preferance also, when I said I could and would gladly read a webcomic off my computer screen, I really meant the equivalent of a small-press comic, 20-30 pages...Not like 100+ pages! Oh no, that would burn through my skull and get to my brain!

I do prefer small doses!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjo 'X3'
If comics ever stop being printed, I will laugh, then cry, then ride a nuclear missile into the house of whoever is responsible.

Don't worry, mate! I'm sure that won't happen any time soon. At least I hope not in my life-time!



Other than that I really can't comment on the futur of digital comic distribution because I don't really know what public it would aspire...

And is it actually healthy? I havn't seen this point being brought up yet, as I didn't read all your posts properly (sorry )...Have you mummies and daddies never told you not to spend too long in front of a screen?

I spend about an hour reading a single Graphic Novel, and already about 1-2 hours a day in front of a screen as it is...Imagine if I read all my Manga off it too!

What are the views on that?

(sorry again if it has already been brought up)

Last edited by Missino : 06-06-2006 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 06-06-2006, 06:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missino
I spend about an hour reading a single Graphic Novel, and already about 1-2 hours a day in front of a screen as it is...Imagine if I read all my Manga off it too!

What are the views on that?
1-2 hours! i spend 8+ hours in front of my CAD terminal everyday at work! so i try not to come home n jump straight on the puter (like today doh!) this is a good point...with loads more people nowadays spending more time in front of screens is it healthier to read paper copies? your eyes are still focusing close in tho...is reading off a screen worse for you than reading a paper copy?
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Old 06-06-2006, 06:26 PM   #17
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Wikivic, I totally agree on not wanting to sit at the PC after a long day at work, and if I do I usually want it to be more interactive than a comic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikivic
is reading off a screen worse for you than reading a paper copy?
Yes, especially with CRT screens. Good quality TFT screens are much much better for you because they're crisper and non-reflective, so you don't have to 'make out' the image amongst the reflections in the room. There is also no refresh strobe, so there's no flicker to strain your eyes (even if you don't notice it). If it's completely dark then the screen is usually too bright for your eyes also, especially with black-on-white comics. Reading off paper is more comfortable and exercises your eyes better with a more varied focal length and different light conditions. Of course reading in the dark is bad for you though - you shouldn't be straining in any conditions.
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Old 07-06-2006, 01:48 PM   #18
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I have absolutely no trouble at all sitting in front of a PC for hours and hours on end </antisocial> - though I admit I do have "days off" where I just do inkwork all day and don't touch the comp but still, no one's saying if you buy a lengthy comic online that you have to swallow it all in one gulp. I thought the whole point of the download thing was to be able to read it at your own leisure - jump in and out of it between drawing and surfing without having the problem of having to go back to the website each time, trawl the archives for the page you were up to and read on from there with all the annoyances reading stuff online gives.

The main issue here seems to be price versus how much you value owning something material. I myself don't mind - comics are nice but pricy and take up space; I live in a teeny studion flat and my manga has already expanded outside my bookshelf and over half my kitchen counter. XD If I could get good, high-quality comics for cheap and not taking up room in my flat then I'd be all for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin
However the problem with this media is obvious though... how do you stop people just copying one CD and sending it to everyone else? With printed media the most they can do is borrow it to a friend but sooner or later you'll want it back. With this you'd be able to give friends a perfect copy with no-loss to yourself.
I think this is probably the main problem - once you've released the comics who's to say they aren't going to be totally exploited nd handed around freely by those who've bought them. Unless there were major encrypting going on to protect the data there's basically nothing stopping pirate copies being distributed left, right and centre... Then there's nothing stopping really evil people printing them and selling them off that way too! XD I bet there's also copyright issues to do with the difference between digital/printed media too that would need to be addressed also.

These points would stop me from putting my own comics up for download... But if other people wanted to put their comics up that'd be good.
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Old 07-06-2006, 04:49 PM   #19
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me, I prefer reading a book, with it in my hand,
I'll keep buying books and all that so mweh
errrm,
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Old 08-06-2006, 12:32 AM   #20
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For many people reading comics online can be a major pain. For me though its not much of a problem i don't mind. A digital medium is just better all around.

The advantages are obvious wether its music, video or comics. Things on my PC don't fill my very limited roomspace (i now have no further shelf space for manga and no more space at all to foot another bookshelf).

The main thing for most people though with digital mediums are convienient ways to prestent them. For music i have my soundblaster plugged into a proper surround amp which sounds super. My videocard is plugged into the TV so i can watch my PC files on my tele. But i have no handy little pad with which to read my comics.

If there were a cheap pad which could display images of either books or comics then digital reading material would be much more convienient for most people. Instead of a book, people could read their comics on a datapad. They could download from the internet or buy a comic cd from somewhere. It would be better than having to look up at a big screen all the time, and you could take a pad anywhere.

To me i'd rather have my data than a physical object. For one i can't scratch tear or bend that. To ensure i don't lose it from some other accident i back it up.

For digital comics to work, their needs to be some standard image dimensions, a standard pad thingy that works with anything and cheap enough for everyone to enjoy. But also a means to prevent people from downloading these things legit, and then offering them up for illegal download somewhere else. Up to press its really very hard to counterfiet comics or copy them, mostly because it would just be too much effort and cost to be profitable for pirates (paper costs money), unless of course its just the odd over enthusiastic fan maknig a scanlation. With digital comics things get much easier to copy, which would only hurt the producers...

Maybe it would be best to stick to physical books for now.
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