[LukePierce]

Originally Posted by Emma

But if we all drew right-to-left comics about japanese school girls called Akiko

Oh.

Bugger.

Well, guess what I've gone and written? Well, she's being called Machiko Suzuki now.


Wapanese is comedy GOLD! Seriously. The RSOM entry that I'm working on at the moment could be called Wapanese to an extent, but it's more a gentle, affectionate piss-take. There's an exchange student called Bobby Converse (Taking the mickey out of the "Western Name" that some Japanese creators assume our names to be like), people going to school on what looks like Gundam, and general stuff like that.

So really, Wapanese can really be taken at face value and in the context of the work produced. if it's taking itself very seriously, then you can probably use Wapanese in it's derogatory sense (or what might be better is to offer constructive criticism that gently steers the creator away from an over idealised view of Asia), or if the work is really comedy-led, then it's most likely that the creator is being quite self-referential and is mostly aware of the Wapanese. It obviously works better if you've been to Japan. I have to admit that Yoyogi Park inspires on Sundays!!! (Japanese Rock and Rollers! What could be more awesome?)

[Laura]

This didn't seem to stop Megatokyo.

Originally Posted by LukePierce

I have to admit that Yoyogi Park inspires on Sundays!!! (Japanese Rock and Rollers! What could be more awesome?)

They've been banned from playing for a few years IIRC - due to noise complaints O_o (I never saw any the three times I visited the country!)

Wapanese is indeed hilarious, I pee myself re-reading my old comics after getting over the cringe-factor. Some people don't get that things are a pisstake, though. *Shrugs* But that's their loss/problem.

For further reading on this topic (and I warn you this is offensive to some and probably NSFW), probe further regards the term, 'animu'.

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Animu

Claim back the animu!!

Also; see weeaboo. Thought to have originated from here, and abused by *koff*chan website.

[Safraz~]

and i thought i only read that website here :P

[-Rainie Moon-]

1.design to be read right to left
It doesn't bother me when a manga is laid out right to left. I think it gives a really nice authentic Asian feel! And being Chinese I've read a lot of manga which is set this way although I have laid out one of manga's western style.

2.Have japanese sound effects
Erm, I'm not too familiar with any of them to be honest but if you mean the Japanese characters then I think they look kind of nice but sometimes I do agree that english sound effects are more appropriate. I think theres some in Tokyo Mew Mew but that case is looks kinda pretty!

3.Have a japanese title, when a english one is just more logical
I don't mind Japanese titles too much but sometimes an English title is more appropriate. However I'm not against a nice Japanese title. I used a Japanese title for a music composition and my teacher said it sounded nice so there definitely isn't anything wrong with a Japanese title.

4.Have characters with japanese names [which i always thought was lazy]
I don't see it as being lazy. In fact I use Japanese names a lot of the time. Sometimes I just think they sound nicer and not as common. I use English names and Chinese names too. And again it just gives a nice asian feel. I think when you use Japanese names it fits in quite nicely with manga being traditionally from Japan but i don't see why we shouldn't mix and match different names.

5.Make said character throw in words like CHAN, SAMA. and of course BAKA!
I'm not too keen on this though. Its quite strange sometimes and its not always appropriate but if one of my characters were ogling a guy then I would be tempted to put 'Kawaii' in bubble writing rather than cute. Although I'm not a fan of this, sometimes I use words like 'San' and 'BAku' but only if the story was set in Japan or was appropriate.

6.setting comics in japan.. bearing in mind the fact you mind NEVER been there!
Nothing wrong with setting it in Japan as thats where manga traditionally comes from no? You don't really have to have been to that place to set your manga there. Every artist is free to chose where to set their manga.

Being Chinese I don't mind a mix of culture in manga or stories in general. I grew up here in England so I'm no more authentic than everyone else who is interested in Chinese or asian culture. When I see a chinese pin yin name in a manga I get a little warm tingle and same with a right to left layout and settings in Asia. And for some reason I get that same warm-ish feel when I see a Japanese name, don't ask why. I have no explanation

[Sun Kitten]

Originally Posted by -Rainie Moon-

1.design to be read right to left
It doesn't bother me when a manga is laid out right to left. I think it gives a really nice authentic Asian feel! And being Chinese I've read a lot of manga which is set this way although I have laid out one of manga's western style.

It's not that it's a problem to read as such. It's more, well, why? I mean, I'm a British comicker, making a comic in English which I put online for the world to read. There's nothing authentically Asian about my comics, so if I made them read right to left just to make them a bit more 'authentic' that seems a bit false to me. I certainly don't think it makes it more authentic, if anything, it makes it less.

Also, English runs left to right, so making an English comic right to left disrupts the reading somewhat. It's worth putting up with for comics that are originally translated from Japanese, but if you're starting from scratch with an English comic, why make the reading that bit less smooth? ^^

Originally Posted by -Rainie Moon-

2.Have japanese sound effects
Erm, I'm not too familiar with any of them to be honest but if you mean the Japanese characters then I think they look kind of nice but sometimes I do agree that english sound effects are more appropriate. I think theres some in Tokyo Mew Mew but that case is looks kinda pretty!

Again, it's the question of why use Japanese sound effects in an English comic? Tokyo Mew Mew is Japanese, and I expect the sound effects may have been drawn in and not easily removed, so it's not really a problem to leave them in (is there a translation there? There usually is, at least in the comics I read).

Originally Posted by -Rainie Moon-

3.Have a japanese title, when a english one is just more logical
I don't mind Japanese titles too much but sometimes an English title is more appropriate. However I'm not against a nice Japanese title. I used a Japanese title for a music composition and my teacher said it sounded nice so there definitely isn't anything wrong with a Japanese title.

Again, it's the question of why use one? I could call my comic 'Taiyoo wo Sagashite' (I *think* that's right) but, really, why? There's no earthly reason. I might as well call it 'V poiskah solntsa', which is Russian for 'Looking for the Sun' - that's more appropriate, in fact, since my husband is Russian so there is a link, while I have no link with Japan
If there's a reason, then by all means, use a Japanese name. What we're saying is, don't use one just for the sake of using a Japanese name ^^

Originally Posted by -Rainie Moon-

4.Have characters with japanese names [which i always thought was lazy]
I don't see it as being lazy. In fact I use Japanese names a lot of the time. Sometimes I just think they sound nicer and not as common. I use English names and Chinese names too. And again it just gives a nice asian feel. I think when you use Japanese names it fits in quite nicely with manga being traditionally from Japan but i don't see why we shouldn't mix and match different names.

It depends on the context. If your manga is set in Japan, then using Japanese names is correct. If it's set in England, then you use names appropriate to the ethnicity of the characters (could be anything, really, including Japanese). If it's a fantasy, make them up! Don't use Japanese names for non-Japanese characters, though, because that's just odd ^^;;

Originally Posted by -Rainie Moon-

6.setting comics in japan.. bearing in mind the fact you mind NEVER been there!
Nothing wrong with setting it in Japan as thats where manga traditionally comes from no? You don't really have to have been to that place to set your manga there. Every artist is free to chose where to set their manga.

Well, yes... but you have to do a heck of a lot of research if you're going to set a story in a place you've never been. Surely, if your story is, say, a school story, it'd make more sense to set it in the country with which you're familiar? Speaking for myself, I've been to Japan twice and I have Japanese friends. I am capable of doing a lot of research. The amount of work I'd have to do to make a comic set in Japan authentic scares me. Unless the story specifically requires Japan (or any other country - the same goes for China or Korea; they're all radically different cultures from the West), I will choose a more familiar setting where I'm less likely to cock it up.
Of course, that's a personal choice. But I really don't think that Japan should be the default location for a comic, just because manga originates in Japan (and does it really? Osamu Tezuka was inspired by Disney, after all ). I am a British comicker, not a Japanese one ^^

There's nothing wrong in using Japanese names, sound effects, titles, panel layouts and locations in a comic. It's just that they should only be used where appropriate, and in many, many comics made by people who aren't Japanese, they're not appropriate. Using them makes such a comic feel a little forced - like the author is trying to be Japanese, to make their comic authentic. But a Japanese comic is not more authentic than a Western one just by virtue of its origin, and you are not less of a comicker than a Japanese person just by virtue of your birthplace or nationality.
You should make your comic *yours*, in all the goodness that that means, and who cares if someone says 'it's not manga'? Drawing it right to left isn't going to change their opinion, after all, and if they don't read your comic because you're not Japanese, it's their loss

All of the above is my opinion, and feel free to ignore. Just don't stop making comics

[Gothic_maidens_]

I think theres nothing wrong with setting a manga anywhere you like, so obviously the people in a japanese manga arent ALL going to be called: bob, mike, john, nicolas, pete and chris, same as in a story about people in england wont all be called: akito, keitaro, etc etc,
personally I dont mind which way pannels are set as long as its 'legable' or what ever the pannelized version of that word is.
And honorifics can be used in japanese storys, but it would be silly if in an english story you had people saying "hey bob-chan, oh wassup jim-sama". so its all about where the story is set ^_^

[Laura]

Rainie Moon, it depends on how much you care about other people's opinions, whether you want to sell a lot of comics/have a lot of web hits, whether you want to develop as a professional, whether you wish to draw purely for self-gratification and no-one else's, or whether you care about being taken seriously.

Please remember there is no real right or wrong how YOU do your comics, your comics are your comics and you should never stop doing them. But most people on these forums are either professionals or aspiring artists working hard to improve to professional standard, all sharing help with each other, so these tips are important if you wish to develop as a pro-active, developing artist and comic-making individual.

You can put looooooads of Wapanese in your comic and still have flocks of sycophantic posters going "WAII ORSUMMM" who like that sort of thing. However by doing so you can lose credibility from other sources who are striving to be more professional.

R-to-L backwards is gimmicky and looks amateur. It is not accepted in mainstream manga competitions (generally). If you read backwards manga is is purely a gimmick created to help save reproduction costs. Likewise why Japanese sound effects are in Japanese or Korean they have not had the money spent on them to re-touch. Did you know manga graphic novels used to cost £16 on import, yet you can get them through Amazon now for just over £4? his is why. It is not aesthetic, an art choice, why manga is backwards. It is to do with money and business - purely to reduce the cost and sell more units. That is all. Don't be fooled thinking it is intentional

The fact remains your work will look amateur if you incorporate the lamentable Wapanese points you absorbed above and your work will not stand out from the rest of the "Suzuko-chan Waii High School Love Drama" stuff slathered everywhere online.

Making comics is really very hard to do for long periods of time! Do you want to look back on them and realise 'oh my god, so cheesy!'? Or think 'yeah I had a pretty good imagination back then!'?

Whichever path you choose, the choice is yours These are well-proven and widely accepted pointers and advice, there's no use fighting against them

[miles]

Well LOL
im guilty for being 'wapanese' then lol
but im not white

i prefer not to use western content myself i would prefer to use japanese sound effects as it would make me feel more apart of the industry and it would encourage me to practice using japanese. And you can also avoid those 'if its not jajpannese its not manga' people
(i always hated BOOOOOM and CCRRAASSHH) And whoever doesnt like reading from right to left or prefers to see english sound effects is a manga hater
When i brought myself to manga i approached it as a 'japanese thing' and i never knew there was such thing as 'Western' manga. So can you be blamed for making something japanese themed ie 'your own manga in a jp style' from something originally japanese?
And the term wapanese/japanophile from what i read is a caucasian person who wants to be japanese. But does making your manga japanese themed make you 'japanese?' ...
I hope people are not put off by using all japanese content in their mangas except for the text of course. You should ask yourself 'Would YOU put fish and chips in your RAMEN that you made yourself??..

[Sun Kitten]

Originally Posted by miles

i prefer not to use western content myself i would prefer to use japanese sound effects as it would make me feel more apart of the industry and it would encourage me to practice using japanese. And you can also avoid those 'if its not jajpannese its not manga' people

I'm afraid you won't - according to them, your stuff won't count as manga because you're not Japanese (I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong!). No amount of Japanese sound effects, Japanese names and Japanese settings will change that fact.

Originally Posted by miles

And whoever doesnt like reading from right to left or prefers to see english sound effects is a manga hater

Don't be silly. I marginally prefer reading left to right because that's the way English - my native language - runs, and the reading experience is slightly smoother. I don't mind reading right to left at all, and I have a lot of translated and untranslated manga. But given the choice, I go for the natural route. And while many English sound effects don't look as good as the Japanese ones, I'm sure that's just a matter of skill on the part of the creator. I personally can't read the Japanese ones, so given the choice of pretty stuff I can't read, versus slightly less pretty stuff I can read, I'll go for the latter.

Does that make me a "manga hater"?

Originally Posted by miles

When i brought myself to manga i approached it as a 'japanese thing' and i never knew there was such thing as 'Western' manga. So can you be blamed for making something japanese themed ie 'your own manga in a jp style' from something originally japanese?

No-one's blaming anyone. Just pointing out that blindly aping everything about manga - from the style to the location to the sound effects - in the belief that doing so will somehow make it 'authentic', whatever that means, may be somewhat counterproductive to actually making a good, original manga

[Subi]

Originally Posted by miles

And whoever doesnt like reading from right to left or prefers to see english sound effects is a manga hater

That... is just such unbelieveable rubbish that it's close to trolling. But then again, so's this whole thread.

Originally Posted by miles

You should ask yourself 'Would YOU put fish and chips in your RAMEN that you made yourself??..

Of course not, the batter on the fish would go soggy. However, I would (and indeed have) have chips with it. Just like I've had chips with things like lasagne.

That type of exclusionist attitude only leads to fascism!

[Dentarthurdent]

Originally Posted by miles

Well LOL
'Would YOU put fish and chips in your RAMEN that you made yourself??..

Hell yeah!


Is that wrong?

[yakumo]

Originally Posted by miles

And you can also avoid those 'if its not jajpannese its not manga' people

I don't think you can avoid those, because you still don't have a japanese passport, and that seems to be all they really care about . I don't see much use in gaining respect from the respectless.

Originally Posted by miles

Would YOU put fish and chips in your RAMEN that you made yourself??..

Ramen is fortunately bilingual, and doesn't mind being eaten by English or Japanese alike.

But seriously, what is this "authentic japanese" people speak of, and why is is thought to be so important? Sure, it's nice to imitate what you're fan of. I started out that way, and I think it's all fine if you're just drawing for yourself. But if an artists asks me to read or buy their work, they won't win respect points from me for false pretences.
Too much inappropriate or illogical use of japanese elements in western manga gives me the impression that the author is a "wannabe" rather than "authentic". I agree with Laura that, if you want to look less amateuristic to a larger audience, you should consider the opinion and nature of your (western) audience.

- Japanese titles:
I once saw a Japanese title on an English manga. Both spelling and grammar were flawed due to dictionary translation. What was meant to be a cute title suddenly became "Heart of excruciating Death" to those who CAN read japanese. If you're going to use japanese, latin, or any language you don't speak fluently, make sure you know what you're saying.

- Japanese names and settings:
I'm guilty to some wapanese too, of course. My first ever attempt was a magical girl story, set in japan, about a japanese highschool girl called "Miku Yon Chiwa", which was a mix of japanese and mexican, because japanese names only consist of 2 words, to my knowledge. It was French language because I had only seen Sailor Moon in French in those days, but I only drew it for myself anyway. Never got far with it.
Nowadays, I write a manga series with a character named "Masaka", set in America because that is a suitable location for a crime action story, unlike my own country. He himself is American, and I chose that name because I thought it sounded believably American, while at the same time being a japanese pun for those who understand.
My other manga is completely Dutch in title, setting, names and sound effects, because it is intended for a younger audience in the Netherlands. Of course, that doesn't stop me from drawing a store called "neko neko" in the background for fun.

[Dock]

Whilst we're doing generalisations...

Interestingly, most of the western-produced 'right to left' comics that I've read tend to have poorer story-telling than the left-to-right ones I've read. They usually rely on 'manga conventions' and visuals rather than plot, character development or any of the other aspects of story telling. It's a generalisation, but it stands to good reason that artists whom draw 'wapanese' comics are more interested in the surface qualities of manga rather than the underlying advantages to the medium.

People should draw comics how they want to, and they should have fun doing so, but if your product is meant for public consumption then it's worth being aware of how your comic will come across. I'd probably assume it's shallow, for starters

[badly shaded]

konnichiwa! ZOMG, KAWAII DESU!!! sayanora!!!

sorry

personally, i would prefer to read the way that the country produces it, but there you go

[Gen. Skirmish]

woah this thread will not end..


I might be repeating myself or others but.


but as stated before.

please draw anything you like, including catgirls

(but don't show it to me.. or else you wil be shot!. repeatly!)

the point of this thread originally was to highlight the fact that overtly showing japanese references without any logically basis.

is just a tad unprofessional and lazy on the part of the artist.

I'm sure as hell not a japanese hater. and am in fact gulity of committing all of these points at one time or other!

I just want to raise awareness that wapanese is a thing that should be generally treated with restrain.


as for the issue of the right to left. which amazingly seems to be the major point of contention.. but not the one that bother me the most.

I too believe it is a massive cope out on behalf of the publishers to save money.

am I'm sadden really good translator such as toren smith studio protus closed down.

because the flipped versions of "oh my goddess" imo were easier to read. esspeciallly as they redid the sound effect with the best letering/ sound effect

yes it was funny that everbody was left handed (as subi joked in RB)

and that many japanese artist objectived to it because it showed flaws in their arts..

but I feel their is as pointed out by sunkitten. really no decent reason for doing it in a manga intended for english readers.

I remember a girl who said she thought it was funny seeing manga read left to right. until somebody pointed out that all manga used to be flipped until about 2000 when viz expertment with two version of dragonball

one flipped and the other unflipped.. suprisingly all the unflipped sold out first.


so weridly more people do buy into that authentic feel. however coveintant it is for the publishers to skimp on spending money to do a decent adaption.

but really wapanese must be stop!. especially if we want a identiy of our own.

[Buuu]

Originally Posted by miles

You should ask yourself 'Would YOU put fish and chips in your RAMEN that you made yourself??..

*pedantic cough* What's tempura ramen if it's not a battered sea creature in ramen? Although it is a prawn and not something like cod or plaice... am sure you could do it with any tempura you make.

Edit: Anyway, it's obviously not true that having English sound effects etc. makes a manga hater. Or at least if it does, this manga hater spends a hell of a lot of her money on manga.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Dentarthurdent

..Hell yeah!

Damn right! *high fives Dentarthurdent*

Back on topic I'll agree that you shoud do what you want. I've read manga, flipped manga, american comics, European comics and all manner of comics with no problems. The only think to watch out for is flow, so long as the page and pannels are easy to follow then it doesn't matter how you do the lay out.

It's good to have a target audience and your own style but don't start adding things that seem out of place just because other people have it in theirs.

[miles]

Originally Posted by Subi

That... is just such unbelieveable rubbish that it's close to trolling. But then again, so's this whole thread.


Of course not, the batter on the fish would go soggy. However, I would (and indeed have) have chips with it. Just like I've had chips with things like lasagne.

That type of exclusionist attitude only leads to fascism!

maybe i should have changed the word 'prefer'
By that i meant for example you introduce your friend to manga
'omg why is it backwards and why arent the sound effects in english? i dont understand why you like this!'
thats happened to me alot
obviously i didnt expect uk manga ka to agree to that i meant that there are people out there who cant stand it just for that reason

..hmmm in a foody fascist way i guess



Dentarthurdent
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Well LOL
'Would YOU put fish and chips in your RAMEN that you made yourself??..

Hell yeah!


Is that wrong?

...lol well thats you!


Originally Posted by yakumo
And you can also avoid those 'if its not jajpannese its not manga' people

I don't think you can avoid those, because you still don't have a japanese passport, and that seems to be all they really care about . I don't see much use in gaining respect from the respectless.

yeah thats totally true lol but it could work
if you have an alias :P
and atleast you can try to reach out to that ignorant audience


I agree with the reasons why people prefer to use western content but i dont think there should be any problem with japanese content so i dont think the wapanese should stop.
except for japanese.
besides there is a hell of alot japlish etc. if thats a word.

AND LAURA I HATE YOU FOR THAT ANIMU LINK lol

[Laura]

Originally Posted by miles

AND LAURA I HATE YOU FOR THAT ANIMU LINK lol

You LOVE it

I'm not a manga hater, I'm a manga player (No wait, that's a Tokyopop viewer thingy)

[-Rainie Moon-]

I have nothing against western style manga but for some reason I like a traditional right to left manga. Don't get me wrong or anything as I've also entered in pieces of manga set out western style. Thanks for the tip laura.
I think a lot of my opinion is influenced by the manga I read as every piece of manga I have read is laid out that way and include Japanese names and everything but thats just my lil thoughts.
(gosh, who knew I had so much of an opinion! lol)