[Sonia Leong]

Originally Posted by DESTRAUDO

And the people voting. DONT GET ME STARTED ON THAT. It did wonders for eurovision.

LOLLERCAUST.

With regards to this contract, in agreement with Selina - the only weird thing going on is the Moral Rights. You own copyright ultimately, but they want Moral Rights, but Moral Rights cannot actually be given away! Sooo... meh. I will actually assume TP need to make a couple of corrections, but aside from that, it's not that bad a contract.

But yeah, if there is any online voting involved? PFFFFT.

[fuurin]

There's a sudden sh*t storm going around about this contract right now. I wonder why it only suddenly got all of this attention. AFAIK the Pilot program has been around for a while.

Hmm the whole, selling your property part makes me wonder what the deal tends to be in the comic publishing industry in general. Companies like Marvel and DC obviously have their own company owned property but other than those exceptions?
What about countries like Japan? Do the creators in Jump magazine own the complete copyrights to their creations? Maybe it's not right to compare to Japan though... it's clear that the western comic publishing industry is vastly different.

[Dock]

Originally Posted by Sonia Leong

But yeah, if there is any online voting involved? PFFFFT.

The online voting is not conclusive, it's merely an influencing factor. If a series votes well then it'll probably go ahead, but if the editors like it and the votes are average, it'll probably go ahead too.

[Kriffix]

I'm glad to hear it's only an influencing factor, otherwise a hell of a lot of us would be doomed.
Might aswell just pitch pretty-boy picture books if not.

[Laura]

Yeah, I've read a lot of comments regards the online voting system-pandering akin to aiming squarely at "13 year old girls who have DeviantArt accounts" Oh dear! It's good to know that it's not conclusive though. It's really raised hackles today, for some reason.

To be perfectly frank - and to speculate horrendously - I fear the voting system will mainly be only fresh animu fans that bother to vote, those who don't buy as much as others would because there is a generation of the young manga-otaku demographic who have everything at the tip of their free-download fingers - obviously all parties having wildly different tastes.

[DESTRAUDO]

Originally Posted by Laura

It's really raised hackles today, for some reason.

I think its more or less a perfect storm.

Much like this.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/celeb..._show_tot.html

Seriously,that contract.... it has potential for everything that makes artists go on a ART RAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEE!

Im sure it will die down soon though as practical application shows it to either be fine or screwing people over horribly.

[spoonbard]

Fuurin, I think it's only just gone public hasn't it? If you got the same email from Hope that I did, we were told about it before.

[fuurin]

Originally Posted by spoonbard

Fuurin, I think it's only just gone public hasn't it?

Hmm I don't know... there has been a thread on the TP forums since February this year, but if they've only just started promoting the program it could explain the sudden attention.

[Captain Nat X]

Just quickly looked through the contract and some parts of it smell a bit fishy. Especially the condiscending part about the French. In fact, I find the colloquial language in the contact quite insulting, and feel it is only there to lull youngsters into a false sense of security. It sounds like the people at Tokyopop are your best friends, until you're too busy to write the second pilot and they drop you like a hot brick.

Most of the contact sounds normal, I don't like how there is a blank space for the payment. They could end up writing anything in there. The main sticking point is obviously the 'moral rights' section. I personally think it is disgusting to suggest that you should not be credited for your work if 'it doesn't fit on the page'. They should be obliged to MAKE it fit. You did the work, you get the credit in my opinion.

Personally, I wouldn't sign it unless I was really desperate for the money and the exposure. I don't think I could risk losing the rights to the stories and characters I have had in my head and sketchbooks for years. No offense intended to those who do take up the offer, I'm just expressing my opinion on the issue.

[Hunter]

I agree with Captain Nat X here! This quote from the Cat in Grant Morrison's We3 fully sums up how I feel about this contract: "Ssstiiinnk!"

[DESTRAUDO]

Nod. Actually if they reworded this for grown ups and cleared up the moral rights issue it wouldnt be so bad. Hopefully they are open to debate.

[kajika]

Originally Posted by Laura

Whu~? This "Shining Stars" contract is NOT the same as "Rising Stars of Manga" contracts. Unless they decide to reword the RSoM contracts for this year, what you sign and send along with entries do NOT ask you to waive your moral rights. You also retain rights to your characters and storyline IIRC. They get first refusal should you decide to go further and pitch your work regards RSoM.

Correct me if I am wrong with my details. But IMO it is important people realise that a pitch under this "Shining Stars" program and entering RSoM are two entirely different things with two seperate contracts, worded completely differently.

I'm just a bit wary of this part of the entry form:

By entering the competition, you hereby grant to TOKYOPOP:

the unlimited but non-exclusive rights to publish, use, adapt, edit, and/or modify you entry in any way, including in commerce, and in any way and all media including without limitation the internet and in TOKYOPOP's Rising Stars Of Manga anthology book(s), without limitation or compensation;

I know it means that you still own your work and can still print your comic yourself after the competiton, but it also means that they are free to do what they want to your entry too, and make money out of it. I guess and example would be that if someone entered it and didn't get a place, TP could still take the storyline, adapt it into a full blown three-book series, give it to someone else to illustrate and they don't have to give you a penny as the original creator/person-who-came-up-with-the-idea. I don't think this has happened, and it probably won't, but it's still giving them the chance to do it if they wish, and there's squat the original artist/writer can do about it as soon as their X is on the line.

Back to the subject of the Shining Stars contract, I totally agree with Captain X. Not having to even put your name on it is just wrong wrong wrong.

[DESTRAUDO]

But if they ever did do that, they would be raped by the interbutts. No artist would ever submit anything to them ever again.

It would probably be the single biggest PR footbullet in their history, and its potential for bad PR that protects artists from actions such as this.

In short, if they did that, it would be very stupid.

[Laura]

Kajika, I think it is free to assume that yes, that would be very dumb thing to do. TBH I interpreted that paragraph to mean "we'll crop parts of your work to help advertise the book".

There's an element of no pain, no gain in RSoM, to say the least.

[Buuu]

Originally Posted by kajika

I know it means that you still own your work and can still print your comic yourself after the competiton, but it also means that they are free to do what they want to your entry too, and make money out of it. I guess and example would be that if someone entered it and didn't get a place, TP could still take the storyline, adapt it into a full blown three-book series, give it to someone else to illustrate and they don't have to give you a penny as the original creator/person-who-came-up-with-the-idea. I don't think this has happened, and it probably won't, but it's still giving them the chance to do it if they wish, and there's squat the original artist/writer can do about it as soon as their X is on the line.

Actually, it refers only to editing the comic itself. There is no mention of signing over your copyrights for either your artwork, or your ideas/concept. That part only means that Tokyopop can upload the finalists to their website without having to create a separate release form for that, hence the without compensation part. IIRC you get a different release for to sign if you win.

[tenshianna]

Originally Posted by kajika

Back to the subject of the Shining Stars contract, I totally agree with Captain X. Not having to even put your name on it is just wrong wrong wrong.

but wherever they omit your name, you can be damn sure they'll slap THEIR name on there. Spacing is NEVER an issue for that!

[JVC]

TOKYOPOP have a new competition or "development programme".

Like Zuda, they use a web-based community to draw attention to promising talent, who TOKYOPOP may later choose to sign-up. It's effectively speculative work (which I'm personally against) but superficially it's nothing to start a late-night, alcohol-fueled LJ rant about.

The major controversy stems from a clause in the contract, which states that, as well as signing over the "economic rights" to your work, you also hand over all the "moral rights".

Sounds scary, doesn't it? That's because it is.

The contract more-or-less lets TOKYOPOP do whatever they want with your work, not credit you and not pass on any profits. Although some claim that you get screwed, the sad reality is that this is normal. Things have calmed down now and Publisher's Weekly's comics blog The Beat has a decent morning-after analysis.

If you only need the exposure and experience, enter.

But if you've created characters who you care about, wish to build stories with and make money from, stay well away. Unfortunately, few creators, especially newcomers, have the luxury of picking and choosing how to get their work seen.

What annoys me is the down-with-the-kids approach to translating the legalese. The language TOKYOPOP uses implies that creators won't get exploited, even though they obviously will be.

I'm particularly interested in hearing what former Rising Stars of Manga winners think about all this...

[DESTRAUDO]

Originally Posted by JVC

but superficially it's nothing to start a late-night, alcohol-fueled LJ rant about.

You rang? XD


http://www.sweatdrop.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10495

[Mathew]

Paul Morrissey & Hope Donovan have created a press release in an attempt to defuse the situation over on Anime News Network.

Originally Posted by fuurin

Companies like Marvel and DC obviously have their own company owned property but other than those exceptions?

I read something about Marvels "incentive payments" in Lying in the Gutters earlier this week:

Originally Posted by Rich Johnston

Marvel do not pay royalties to comic creators. They pay "incentive payments" instead based on rising sales plateaus. So if your book sells well in the US, you do very well out of it, too. But they do not give any such payments on foreign publication of their comic books.

One creator once complained to me that his low selling Marvel comic sold more in Spain than in the USA, but he didn’t see a bean.

One big fly in the ointment is that Marvel Europe, including Marvel UK, is not a Marvel company. It’s the European magazine and sticker publisher Panini, who snapped up full reprint rights in perpetuity it seems as part of the Marvel bankruptcy agreements. Any payments they now give to Marvel are small and cover full reprint rights.

While at the time Marvel needed to maximise any and all payments to deal with bankruptcy, in retrospect it looks like not one of the best publishing decisions they’ve made.

And what money Marvel do get, they keep. It does not get shared with the creators of the books, no matter how much, no matter how many copies sold or how much money they receive.

[DESTRAUDO]

Its amazing how reasonable the contract is with these clarifications. They totally foot bulleted, but, they applied a very nice hello kitty bandaid, so i think it will all turn our great.