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Old 19-03-2012, 06:11 PM   #1
Laura
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Default Web comic or print comic?

A great point was discussed a bit on Twitter today, regarding preferences for having your comic remain a digital-only webcomic, or making one in print.

Some thoughts discussed were control over presentation and content, such as if the artist disliked their work over time and could take it down from public view if they so desired.

My point of view is that I started making comics in print, so if I disliked what I made, I could just stop the print run, and put more modern illustrations online.

Do you have a huge anxiety over putting work online because people may not get context? For example my main comic starts off with incredibly old artwork so would people judge artwork from someone my age over art they quickly saw when I drew aged 14?

Should reader get context? Should they have situations explained to them (i.e. is this a labour of love or is it funded by a huge company? Rarely does the latter happen FWIW!)? It marks me greatly that someone writes shit things online over someone's (likely very personal) work without understanding context, assuming that the person makes money off it. Should art be explained in context?

Does cost matter to you? How much do you spend on printing? How many comics do you print? How do you sell them? Do you make back your costs? Do you also market using free social media or do you pay for ads? Where do you sell your comics, Etsy? Do you prefer to sell online or face to face? Would you prefer to sell other peoples' comics altogether on the same table instead of your own?

Obviously there are emotive reasons and choices for all viewpoints, so discussion is welcome regards all this!

What do you prefer to do and why? Should an artist try both before deciding? What works for you? Do you find sales better or worse in any medium?

Some SD terminology bandied around that newcomers may find useful for discussion;
  • Floppy = short comic, i.e. this, usually 12-32 pages or so
  • GN = Graphic Novel, a book over 100 pages or so
  • Print comic = exactly this! A comic that has been printed.
  • Webcomic = a comic updated online with various update times, i.e. like this. Can be a strip like Pocketful of Clouds, Penny Arcade, XKCD, or a whole page, such as Aya Takeo. Black and white or colour.
  • Digital comic = can be downloaded and read online or on a device such as an iPad or a Kindle, usually in a chunk to read exactly like a 20+ page comic book, only digitally.
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Old 19-03-2012, 07:28 PM   #2
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Personally, i don't mind having old work floating around the ether

If someone want to dig out some old work of mine and sit it next to my newer stuff to say "Haw haw look how crap they used to be"... WELL TBH I DO THAT TO MY WORK ANYWAY! Never look back darling, it distracts from the now (beautiful pixar quote)

My goal is still to make one BIG book, always has been. But personally I quite like having the issues leading up to it as well, it gives me a little goal to reach every year or so. Plus, its quite handy if someone wants to read my comic but doesn't like reading off a computer screen; quite understandable.

I get asked quite a bit from people who wanna start making their own comics whether online is better than going straight to print. I alway say that it depends on the comic.

As a rough rule of thumb I'd say that chaptered series work better as webcomics than self contained or short stories. But it all depends on the pace and the plot. Some series just need to be read all in one big go, so that certain details don't get lost among the spaced out updates.

Cool things can happen with each though that maybe can't be achieved by the other. You can do amazing things with printed and natural media that can't be done with digital and visa versa.

I general I'd have to say that i don't actually have preference for reading comics! But i definitely prefer making a webcomic. I just really prefer the motivation of weekly updates and the satisfaction of regular feedback, it suits my style of comics a lot better than hunkering down and drawing something for a long time before anyone sees it.

As usual though, its all your call
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Old 20-03-2012, 12:13 AM   #3
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Hehe, lots of interesting questions! Hmmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura View Post
Do you have a huge anxiety over putting work online because people may not get context? For example my main comic starts off with incredibly old artwork so would people judge artwork from someone my age over art they quickly saw when I drew aged 14?
I really hope people reading my older work will understand it's older. But I think the stories still have value even if the art is ancient and terrible, so I'd rather they stayed up Plus, they're on the same website as my most recent stuff.
If I ever thought a story was really worthless on every ground, I suppose I would take it down.

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Should reader get context? Should they have situations explained to them (i.e. is this a labour of love or is it funded by a huge company? Rarely does the latter happen FWIW!)?
... I've never actually thought that needed mentioning! Haha, I don't think I'm important enough to get online hate

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Originally Posted by Laura View Post
It marks me greatly that someone writes shit things online over someone's (likely very personal) work without understanding context, assuming that the person makes money off it. Should art be explained in context?
It may help - in which case I see nothing wrong with a discreet little 'about me' section. I do actually have one on toothycat.net, although it doesn't go into great detail about the comic status. Haters probably won't read such a section, but then they'll just look like bigger idiots to the sensible people who matter (I know that doesn't help with such comments, but sometimes that's all you can do).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura View Post
Does cost matter to you? How much do you spend on printing? How many comics do you print? How do you sell them? Do you make back your costs? Do you also market using free social media or do you pay for ads? Where do you sell your comics, Etsy? Do you prefer to sell online or face to face? Would you prefer to sell other peoples' comics altogether on the same table instead of your own?
Cost matters in that I want my comics to be economically viable - I have to make back what they cost. I print 50 or so at a time (books or GNs), sell them at conventions and online, and make them available to read online for free because I like to. I don't pay for ads and don't market much (not really sure how to). I don't care how I sell - although face-to-face is nice, it limits the options for people who live far away from you so online is also good. I like sharing a table, it makes plugging stuff easier

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Originally Posted by Laura View Post
What do you prefer to do and why? Should an artist try both before deciding? What works for you? Do you find sales better or worse in any medium?
As for me, I like my stuff to be available in as many ways as possible. Like Mimi, I like the instant gratification and encouragement of a regular webcomic update I think it's always worth trying different options, but people's personal circumstances may restrict those options - you have to make the best of what you have to do as much as you can of what you want ^^
As for what works sales-wise, so far I sold plenty of Sun Fish Moon Fish books at Expo, practically none online and a few digital copies (kindle). But that's fine, as long as people can read it - and it is also available as a webcomic, of course ^^
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Old 23-03-2012, 02:07 AM   #4
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I prefer to make print comics. As a personal preference I don't really like the webcomic format as I feel you lose a real sense of flow and just general 'comic'-ness of the thing.

To be honest also I find the idea that anyone from anywhere can read any random page at any random moment to be quite terrifying. However I'm not going to dictate on how readers should or shouldn't read comics, so dabble a little in making my stuff available online for those who prefer it that way.

I'm pretty sure I have more hardcopy readers than I do online though. You just get a better sense for the material in the hand than you do on-screen imo. *chops down tree for the cause*
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Old 27-03-2012, 10:57 PM   #5
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In terms of reading I much prefer to hold a comic, but that's more of an attention span thing really! (I guess it can be a bit more convenient as well...)

When it comes to making comics though I always go with posting it online first just because I find it's a good to way to get a feel for how the comic with go down with audiences, if I posted a comic online and no one read it chances are I wouldn't print it either. I always tend to take down old, old work though, I've made A LOT of comics in the past but no one will ever read them cos they're poorly drawn/ written.

Anyways, going off on a bit of a tangent there.
I reckon if you have the resources there's nothing wrong with having a comic in both web and hard copy form. Anything to give you a wider audience!
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:19 PM   #6
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I've done plenty of both, but I still consider myself a webcomic artist primarily. Webcomics were what got me into comics seriously; Megatokyo was a massive influence on me, and I consider Homestuck my favourite comic and my primary 'fandom' right now. Webcomics tackle subjects, visual styles and genres print comics won't dare to because most publishers are so conservative.

I don't feel any problem with people just randomly opening up any old page. I mean, why would they? When you open my comics site, the front page is my newest work and then if you click 'first' it's obvious that those pages are older. Not to mention that unlike a print comic, every single page has the date displayed clearly so the reader can see that a page was drawn years ago and then jump ahead in the archives right then and there to see the improvement. With print comics, people aren't always aware that a book is my old work compared to another print comic, particularly with anthologies.Not to mention that by the time a print comic is out and people are looking at it, the art in there is already old. I don't think I've ever had a comic in print where the art isn't at very least several months old. It's usually nearly a year old by the time it's in print.

At least with online work, people can see it's old work. With print comics, people can easily pick up my old work completely out of context, not knowing it's old work and judge me based on that. ie. somebody comes to the IndieManga table, they like the cover of Origins, so they buy that without looking at the little bit in the copyright section that gives the date of printing. The comics in there are old work and unlike online, you can't just click ahead or elsewhere on the site. A person's impression of my art reading Origins is based purely on what's in that book, which is old art.

I've found the response to putting my webcomic work into print pretty disappointing. A huge bunch of people promised to buy copies but then did not. It took a ridiculous amount of time and quite a lot of money to print fewer copies than my daily hits. I just feel like 'why bother?' I only even printed it because a few stubborn people wouldn't read my favourite comic out of everything I've done because it was online and kept nagging me to. They then didn't really give any particular response about it, unlike my online readers, who leave encouraging comments, discuss the story and characters, send fanmail etc. It was particularly expensive because it's in full colour, something which doesn't cost any extra online.

I find webcomics exciting. There's so much more stuff I can do. I'm experimenting with animated gifs at the moment, and suggestion comics where I go off reader suggestions and draw the panels quickly based on reader input mspa style. Like this:
http://mspaforums.com/showthread.php?46979-HEROBREAK
This is a format that wouldn't work nearly so well in a book. It's something that even would have been hard to do ten years ago before everybody had broadband as standard. Single large panels with content drawn right then and there and the ability to use animation. That is exciting stuff.
I can do really tall comics, or really wide comics, or comics with multiple story paths, or full-on interactivity or music or voice acting. This is why I keep urging comic people to read Problem Sleuth and Homestuck on mspaintadventures, because they are doing exciting new things with the medium that we should be paying attention to! Homestuck has a daily readership of over a million people! That figure completely dwarfs sales of most print comics. Being stuck reading these things on a computer won't even be an issue in the near future as Kindle-like technology improves.

For me, webcomics are where all the exciting and inventive things are happening, and that's where I want to be!
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:35 PM   #7
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Interesting responses, I love reading them! Keep them coming

I am also going to elbow in a bit about social media into this conversation, since it is a bit of gateway between digital and trad print as it does the same thing for both comic mediums, despite itself being wholly digital. So it sort of ties in. Sorta.

Great article here by Sarah McIntyre.
Full Article = http://jabberworks.livejournal.com/470771.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah McIntyre
Small press explosion

So how do people get their work seen by editors? One of the champions of the small-press scene, Oli Smith, commented on Facecbook that selling self-published comics at small press fairs isn't enough to pick up the interest of larger publishers. And I'd agree with that, it's rare to see art directors and agents at small press fairs. (Although I do occasionally spot some of the really cutting-edge ones, and they don't generally make themselves known to everyone.) Here's what I said to Oli: I guess I think that the small press and small press fairs are the incentive we need to MAKE the stuff. Having a deadline of a fair can be enough to get someone from having good ideas to actually making something printed. And once we have the beautiful printed things, we then have good materials for self-promotion. It's not enough just to make postcards and have images on a website, I think. We need to be making whole little books. Partly because it teaches us how to make more books, and make them better, and partly because it shows publishers that we can do it.

But there's something wonderful about having a group of people all pressing to get it done by the same deadline, and getting the chance to look at each other's work and get feedback. I think it makes work happen that wouldn't exist otherwise. That's what I love about the indie comics scene; lots of people getting off their backsides and actually producing stuff, and figuring out how to sell it, not just trying to get editors to look at websites full of art they did ages ago, back at college. People need to be constantly making things, and deadlines and community spirit totally help with that.

I only learned how to get my work seen by publishers by mixing with other creators first: people at British SCBWI, Camberwell art college, The AOI's Business Start-up classes, reviewing books and events for Nikki Gamble's Write Away website, being involved in this LiveJournal community. But I wouldn't have had much to show the publishers if I hadn't been inspired to make lots of little books by people making their own books and comics at the London Artists Book Fair, the Alternative Press Fair, and the UK Web & Mini Comix Thing (which has since had the reins taken up by Comica's Comiket). And seeing other creators post things on LiveJournal that they had created made me see that all you need is a photocopier and a stapler to make books.

It's hugely encouraging to see publishers such as Blank Slate, NoBrow, The Phoenix Comic, SelfMadeHero and Sweatdrop Studios giving indie creators the chance to make beautiful books. (Our Nelson book was just a bunch of comics friends getting together and saying, 'Let's do it!' And bookshops were happy to go along and stock it; the first print run sold out almost immediately.)
(Lovely that these 'ere forums get a mention. If you're reading, thanks Sarah! )

I'm going to sort of link it back to relevancy, by talking about webcomics, Kickstarter, funding and stuff like that.

It seem that there is a lot of content created by love, being very successful, and picked up by publishers

I can rattle off that Order of the Stick, Cat Vs Human, and Hyperbole and a Half, 3 online webcomics/humour blogs that have been picked up by a publisher due to their online success (Hyperbole even got meme'd, "X all the Y" from "This is why I'll never be an Adult", a hilarious blog that made me choke with lolz & Andy thought I was dying when I first discovered it [I blame Sneaky Hate Spiral]), or funded wildly by Kickstarter contributors (for OotS) to reprint the webcomic into Graphic Novels.

Exciting times for comic makers.

If you have printed your comic from your webcomic contributions, have you ever used it as a promo piece to pitch to publishers? Would you? Ever?
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura View Post
If you have printed your comic from your webcomic contributions, have you ever used it as a promo piece to pitch to publishers? Would you? Ever?
Only if it was the newest and best thing I'd done

Thanks for the quote, by the way, good to read ^^
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:54 PM   #9
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I've came to the conclusion only recently that I really hate having my work in print and the stress of producing something that was "good enough to print" was a massive barrier to me actually doing any comics or art. Everything had to be sellable and to the highest quality - each pin-up had to be amazing and full 600dpi to print, each comic had to be great with the best characters and story... and everything I tried to do failed because I just couldn't live up to my own expectations of what "good enough to print" meant.

I feel a great lack of control once something is printed. Once printed I can't change anything, I can't fix any of the mistakes I've made. So they're there, permanently out in the world... and until I find an economical and reliable way to remotely destroy comics with explosives hidden in the spines, any comics I print will always be out there for everyone to see. And as Kate mentioned above, unless someone reads the publishing date in the fine print, people can get the wrong idea of your current skill level if they pick up an old printed comic. I really would rather people didn't see my old work, but if I print it I have no choice but to continue selling and get my costs back or destroy them and make a loss. As a skinflint who hates wasting money, however tempting the latter option would be I could never burn money like that.

With webcomics I can fix, change and update parts as I see fit. I can also take the whole lot offline if I want to. Maybe when I'm more skilled I'll be happier to print my work, but right now I find the idea of publishing online and the control it gives a lot more comfortable.

As someone who struggles with motivation, in the past getting comments on my webcomic pages was a massive boost to my productivity... Knowing that your work is actively being read and people want to know what's going to happen is a great motivator. You can get kind comments from readers of your printed work and while this is of course really lovely and encouraging, they're commenting on a finished product. You have to grit and grind alone for weeks until you get that finished product out - and it's during those weeks, months, years, that you really need constant reassurance. That's the case for me for me at least.

I also HATE selling my work at events. I can put on a happy chipper face and do it, only because I've worked in sales in the past. Sitting behind a table with my work on it is a limb numbing, digestive system ruining, hot sweat inducing, nightmare of forcing smiles and bantering with strangers... it only dawned on me recently how upsetting I used to find it all and the main reason events were actually bearable was seeing comicky friends. I know I need to address this anxiety because it isn't healthy... but until I feel I have it under control if I did print comics they'd be only be sold online.

A bit of a garbled post ^^; but it feels good to air my anxieties.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I also HATE selling my work at events. I can put on a happy chipper face and do it, only because I've worked in sales in the past. Sitting behind a table with my work on it is a limb numbing, digestive system ruining, hot sweat inducing, nightmare of forcing smiles and bantering with strangers... it only dawned on me recently how upsetting I used to find it all and the main reason events were actually bearable was seeing comicky friends. I know I need to address this anxiety because it isn't healthy... but until I feel I have it under control if I did print comics they'd be only be sold online.
This. This massively. I love making comics and having something to show for my efforts at the end of it, but the actual selling part is a personal kind of hell tbh. Love making, hate selling. It's a social minefield that I find horrendously awkward and embarrassing to navigate as I bumble around trying to look happy and confident. XD

But yeah I don't mind having old work available. It's a marker for where I was at the time, from which I've moved on. I can't control what people think of it, so I try not to worry about it (just don't read in front of me please! *stress*). I worry most about my most recent stuff as it's the most accurate representation of my level at that moment in time. I expect older stuff to be deemed as perhaps not as good as recent work, but if it's the other way around it's a real problem!

Just in case anyone sees me at an event: I'm not a psycho recluse, so please don't avoid me too hard.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ushio-kun View Post
This. This massively. I love making comics and having something to show for my efforts at the end of it, but the actual selling part is a personal kind of hell tbh. Love making, hate selling. It's a social minefield that I find horrendously awkward and embarrassing to navigate as I bumble around trying to look happy and confident. XD
Yes, I don't like selling my stuff either - this, for me, is one of the things I like best about sharing a table, because I have no qualms about pimping other people's stuff, and I know they'll reciprocate when appropriate I don't have anxiety issues about it, but I find trying to push my own stuff feels weird and a bit embarrassing
(unless it's someone who's a familiar customer, but that's totally different).

I don't mind having old stuff in print but I don't like watching someone flick through it in front of me. I have to bite my tongue to stop myself saying "I'm really sorry, the art is old and rubbish, look at this instead!"
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Kitten View Post
Yes, I don't like selling my stuff either - this, for me, is one of the things I like best about sharing a table, because I have no qualms about pimping other people's stuff, and I know they'll reciprocate when appropriate Trying to sell my own stuff is weird and a bit embarrassing
Ah this one... like I said, it was hard but sharing with SD peeps made it a lot more bearable. I could always sit some distance from my work and sell other people's stuff (which is so much easier!). XD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ushio-kun
Just in case anyone sees me at an event: I'm not a psycho recluse, so please don't avoid me too hard.
I should add my own disclaimer: I am a recluse and a bit of a psycho... you can approach me but no sudden movements and don't make eye contact.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:55 AM   #13
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With the advancement of technology and the lot of interested parties flocking the internet lines, I would likely suggest that you try a web comic first. That would make the distribution actually easier and a lot cheaper. You are just to need a good website and an interesting one to upload your files to and just monitor how the netizens are going to react to each thing you download.
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Old 13-05-2012, 07:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Kitten View Post
Yes, I don't like selling my stuff either - this, for me, is one of the things I like best about sharing a table, because I have no qualms about pimping other people's stuff, and I know they'll reciprocate when appropriate I don't have anxiety issues about it, but I find trying to push my own stuff feels weird and a bit embarrassing
(unless it's someone who's a familiar customer, but that's totally different).

I don't mind having old stuff in print but I don't like watching someone flick through it in front of me. I have to bite my tongue to stop myself saying "I'm really sorry, the art is old and rubbish, look at this instead!"
I agree with Morag and Wyld's comments a lot in this thread.
Though with me it's more like the thing I've just drawn I have to not say "this is rubbish"

I've very bad about following webcomics. I have three or four I try and keep up with, then end up forgetting for weeks on end. In fact, writing this I realise I'm about 80 pages behind on 'Looking For Group', which is the main webcomic I read. So there's proof

I also have a problem following plots if I see one page a fortnight or suchlike, which makes picking up a whole comic much more favourable - even if there's no absolute ending, hopefully it's 30 something pages of a contained story arc.

I'm certain I've missed hundreds of good comics out there on the web because I just don't really like the format. Much happier when a web comic makes the transition to printed media, and I can pick up a collection that way!

I always think selling it isn't so much the big part. Heck, I lose money on every comic I print, but as long as it's affordable, that's not really a problem. If one person can pick it up and laugh, then something's gone well! Which is good because selling comics at the last comic event I had a table at was a total disaster (Thought Bubble, Leeds).

And like Wyld, I know I couldn't keep up doing a web comic of my own. It takes me months to approach a page sometimes (anyone trying to follow my 'Distant Thunder' title can attest to that!). I've toyed around with the idea of my next title going webcomic first, then print at the end as a graphic novel, but I think we'll all have retired before that happens..
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Old 17-05-2012, 06:30 AM   #15
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Laura: "A great point was discussed a bit on Twitter today, regarding preferences for having your comic remain a digital-only webcomic, or making one in print."

Haven't been around here for awhile, but I wanted to answer this. I'm constantly being reminded at work how popular graphic novels (GN) are becoming in the UK against low comic sales numbers, which tells me people are becoming less interested in buying/reading serials. This is mirrored in Japan where serial manga is declining fast but complete beginning middle and end books are increasing, as well as their sequels.

It would be smart then to invest time in graphic novels rather than a serial web or print comic right now. Brits need to make more quality GN.

I think a 350 page GN with an average 6-8 panels a page would be a sweet spot. But the art must be premium, sublime, it's one thing to read a short badly drawn story but it takes a lot to force myself to read a badly drawn 250 page long story as it does a badly written novel.
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Old 17-05-2012, 07:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
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It would be smart then to invest time in graphic novels rather than a serial web or print comic right now. Brits need to make more quality GN.
I do prefer graphic novels - they're less work to create than the equivalent number of floppies (although I think I may be unusual in disliking having to do covers ) and they're much more satisfying to sit down with ^^
However, there's nothing stopping you doing a graphic novel of a webcomic, they're not mutually exclusive. Indeed, you can use all three formats, as I did with Sun Fish Moon Fish, which is available online, and came out in floppy format over a few years, and is now a collected graphic novel. That said, once the GN is out nobody buys the comics so I think from now on I'll only release serial comics in graphic novel form, like I did with Reya and Ambient Rhythm. Floppies are still good for standalone short stories, of course.
I like having total control over my comics, it means I can release them however I like and try things out like webcomic-first, print-first, graphic novels and floppies and so on
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Old 17-05-2012, 03:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erininamori View Post
It would be smart then to invest time in graphic novels rather than a serial web or print comic right now. Brits need to make more quality GN.
That would be the case if it weren't for the serious lack of publishers willing to take on a new original graphic novel right now. Also making a GN is months of work, and as you said, it needs to be top-quality work. It's not like webcomics or even serials, where people will forgive roughness because it's coming out fast and cheap/free.

You need a publisher or some means of funding to work on the GN for months. This is at a time when publishers are shying away from original projects and from creators who don't already have a bunch of professionally printed titles to their name.
I have been through the pitching process for original GNs more than once now. It's a huge amount of work for a low chance of success.
If print comics were such a great opportunity right now, don't you think Publishers would be snapping up comic artists from the UK's amazing small press talent pool for original GNs? That is not the case. Even a lot of Pros are having to fight over scraps of work (a lot of it licensed stuff and adaptations) to get by right now. Asking somebody to put in a load of time into something which may not even get past a pitch is asking them to take a huge risk and few artists have the money right now for taking risks.

Kickstarter/Indiegogo are possible solutions, but they require a fanbase to take off usually; the kind of fanbase you could build up through running webcomics. Self-publishing and distribution on a commercial scale isn't really feasible unless you have a huge fanbase already built up through things like popular webcomics.
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Old 17-05-2012, 05:26 PM   #18
erininamori
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Oookay this is a very black vs white response, and you seem very defeatist.

Quote:
Also making a GN is months of work, and as you said, it needs to be top-quality work. It's not like webcomics or even serials, where people will forgive roughness because it's coming out fast and cheap/free.
I know what's required to make a GN, and months is an understatement if you have no assistants. But there is no boo-hoo argument here, you either like drawing or you don't.

Quote:
This is at a time when publishers are shying away from original projects and from creators who don't already have a bunch of professionally printed titles to their name.
I have been through the pitching process for original GNs more than once now.
This is unfounded, as I know people getting published. But they are good artists, they deserve it, some people are just lazy and expect an easy ride, it's a lot of hard work just practicing, all the hundreds hours of life drawing and learning techniques to do with ink or whatever, but the making the comic isn't the 'work' part, that's the fun part, the part you've been waiting years for.

I can't remember where it's from, Picasso or whoever, the artist is probably wrong, but there was something I read which was amazing:

Man: Picasso, could you draw me something?
Picasso: Sure!
*1 minute passes*
Man: Thanks!
Picasso: That will be 1 million please.
Man: 1 million for a 1 minute sketch? are you kidding?
Picasso: It took me 1 minute to draw it, but it took me all my life to learn how to do it.

That was something to do with people miss-valuing art.

Quote:
It's a huge amount of work for a low chance of success.
If print comics were such a great opportunity right now, don't you think Publishers would be snapping up comic artists from the UK's amazing small press talent pool for original GNs?
You can't think that highly of graphic novels then? too much work?? read my above.
What amazing small press talent pool? what is that?

Quote:
That is not the case. Even a lot of Pros are having to fight over scraps of work (a lot of it licensed stuff and adaptations) to get by right now. Asking somebody to put in a load of time into something which may not even get past a pitch is asking them to take a huge risk and few artists have the money right now for taking risks.
Life would be boring without risks.

I know it's hard to get published, but I believe if you're good, passionate there is no reason to doubt.
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Old 17-05-2012, 06:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
This is at a time when publishers are shying away from original projects and from creators who don't already have a bunch of professionally printed titles to their name.
I have been through the pitching process for original GNs more than once now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erininamori
This is unfounded, as I know people getting published. But they are good artists, they deserve it, some people are just lazy and expect an easy ride...

At this point in history it's hard enough to get employed as a road sweeper let alone a comic artist. I'm always saying this, but it's true, you get more agency temps with degrees these days. Simply being good or making an effort isn't nearly enough these days. So it's not entirely unfounded, nor is it fair to assume the people who don't make it are lazy or expect something for nothing.

It's not defeatist as much as it's a realistic assessment of the market.
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Old 17-05-2012, 07:43 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Darth Mongoose View Post
You need a publisher or some means of funding to work on the GN for months.
Be fair - webcomics also require lots of time and effort. You made a GN from your webcomic, didn't you? I do from mine

I'm actually not quite sure now what erininamori meant when talking about 'graphic novels'. I assumed it was meant to refer to a perfect-bound book, whether self- or professionally-published, in which case my point stands; webcomics and graphic novels are two forms of output of what is often the same thing: pictures and words*. But now I'm wondering if self-published books are meant to be excluded - erininamori, did you mean only professionally published books? If so, can you give examples of the sort of publishers you mean? Thanks ^^

* Yes, I know webcomics can be much more variable and interesting, and have animations and lots of clever new ways to tell stories. But the vast majority are still pictures and words and would translate directly to print with very little adaptation.
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